My understanding is that the COVID boosters lose most of their efficacy after six months. I got my bivalent booster ten months ago. What happens if I just walk into Walgreens and ask for another? Will they give it to me?
The CDC page says "you only get one booster for the rest of your life", because when they wrote that page they never could have predicted that this would still be going on a year later.
Update: I read the misordered scribbles on my paper card wrong, I guess April was shot 4, and I got shot 5 in September (according to the QR code). Which does not explain why they wrote 6/30/2023 on the paper card...
My impression is that the FDA is working out the specifics of a yearly booster program, but that itās not quite ready yet.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/fda-proposes-shift-to-annual-covid-19-booster-shots-for-most-americans
I would say, "I am coming from abroad."
I did that, which is true, due to bivalent shots being available too far into the future where I live. The pharmacy did zero verification of my input.
Bivalent booster was started in September, wasnāt it? https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-moderna-pfizer-biontech-bivalent-covid-19-vaccines-use
I had my first three in Cyprus and had no issue getting the bivalent in early September in the US with very little question from CVS. Iāll second that you can probably get another one by limiting what information you share.
I got Covid at the end of December, 3.5mo post-boost. Super mild.
Oh, I guess you're right. I mis-read the misordered illegible handwriting on my paper card. I guess I got it in September.
Here in the UK, I've been getting boosters up until last autumn as I'm in an at-risk group. This year? Not a clue. All I know is that the government are only going to offer boosters to 'specific groups of people'. I guess I'll find out out if 'specific' means 'liable to get frakked hard by Covid' or 'the Right kind of people'...
Those groups overlap: the average age of a tory party member is 80 or something.
You'd *think* so. But given how bat-shit crazy the Tory Party is nowadays, I have to wonder if they're after old folks' monies and homes more than their votes...
I agree: it's hard to predict the actions of a death cult which has spent the last decade selecting for very stupid people.
In the UK, last autumn boosters were available only for people at risk and 50+, which means I had my last (and only) booster more than a year ago and, according to current policy, I will never ever get another one. Apparently, from now on, only 50+ and people in at-risk groups will be able to get the vaccine, so you're good. I can't even buy it privately...
When they ask if you are at-risk, YOU SAY YES.
I may need to prove it, though. I do visit the US semi-regularly, I wonder what would happen if I just pop in a Walgreens and ask for the vaccine... any thoughts on that?
My understanding is that someone who is not my physician but is administering a vaccine is allowed to ask me screening questions like "have you ever had an allergic reaction to a vaccine or [components that are in this vaccine]?" and "when was your last vaccine?" and "do you have a qualifying condition?" They are not entitled to demand that I explain my answer to that question. I have been pressed once for a further answer once I answered "yes." I told them "It is an immune-related condition."
As far as I'm concerned, being a person with an immune system who does not want to catch COVID and risk a possibly permanently disabling condition fulfills that condition. However, I do have other "qualifying conditions," but either way, I feel no issues whatsoever with my conscience just saying "yes." If the government's approach is "good luck out there, kids, everyone for themselves!" then all I can do is make decisions based on the info I have. And I want to get juiced a minimum of every 6 months until I hear something otherwise.
In the UK, you can't just show up in a vaccination centre (not any more, anyway). You have to either be referred by your GP, or book through the NHS website. My GP won't refer me, of course, and the NHS site requires me to use my identity and warns me that I need to "prove" (or something to that effect) my "qualifying condition". I'm not sure how far you can get through the booking process if you lie, but they do have access to your medical history. It's the NHS.
When I had the Plague a couple of months ago, I knew there were a bunch of pre-existing conditions that could allow me to get special extra treatment (anti-virals etc), but I assumed I didn't fit the requirements. The medically qualified people I spoke to were basically "oh yeah, we can totally put you down as eligible based on these vague and highly subjective criteria" and I got the impression that this was their standard response to the rules invented by politicians. I didn't end up needing the anti-virals, but I was glad the people doing the actual work had a good attitude about them.
Now there are a bunch of rules on who can get a fifth jab in Australia, and I'm not yet eligible, purely because it's less than six months since my own positive diagnosis so I don't actually need a vaccine (real COVID infection gives you about ten months of vaccine-equivalent protection according to the latest meta-study). But again, I feel like there are fewer roadblocks in reality than the public rules suggest if I decided I wanted to go get jabbed anyway. YMMV in different countries of course; gods help anyone living in countries with not even our half-arsed level of social medicine, for example. Poor bastards.
Hey now, don't say never, you just have to survive until 50...
there are two layers of immunity ā the first is against infection ā catching it to begin with ā and thatās what diminishes more. But the second layer, where T-cells etc keep you feom having severe illness, continues on much longer, if I have been understanding the literature correctly.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/t-cells-protect-against-covid-19-absence-antibody-response
but yes a new booster shot gives a few months of (waning over time) increased infection protection ā¦ I have been hoping for more development of nasal vaccines, which can be much more effective against even catching it and for longer
Long COVID is the thing I'm most worried about, and that seems to be poorly correlated with severity of symptoms from initial infection, so "don't get it in the first place" remains the goal....
same for me, Iāve been very careful, almost a hermit with my autoimmune-challenged spouse.
My understanding is that LC may correlate in part with how long/thoroughly the disease is in your body to begin with ā¦ and giving yourself time to recover with radical rest vs pushing through. So minimizing viral load is huge, and paxlovid also helps chase it out of your body more quickly. But that said, I donāt want to contract it at all.
Btw @anitaycheng is a good follow on this stuff.
Unfortunately there's no data yet about how much additional vaccine doses help with LC. My impression is that getting vaccinated at all is the biggest differentiator, and that subsequent vaccine doses don't make AS much of a difference there. Extra boosters are kind of like trying to continually top up your gas tank when you're already at 75%. Ofc if you're immunocompromised, that's different.
Unless there is evidence that "topping up the tank" will cause *actual harm*, you have not made an argument against doing it.
Very true! I'm maximally vaxxed myself. Just want to make sure that expectations are realistic. All vaccines wane, and immunologists have been saying that there's no way that a vaccine could prevent all infection from a virus that replicates in mucosal tissues (ie not in the blood where most of your antibodies actually circulate).
I've gotten three boosters so far - 11/21, 5/22, and 9/22, the last one being the updated booster. As it happens I did get the last one at Walgreens though I had to schedule it a few days in advance, they weren't doing walk-ins.
Meanwhile, this CDC page says get an updated booster if it's been at least 2 months since the last one.
I don't think it says that. I think it says "get a bivalent booster if it has been 2 months since your non-bivalent booster".
Yeah. They have a quiz about "When to take your next booster", but it's more about when you qualify for covalent. It does not take into account at all whether or not you have already had the covalent shot.
Good on you for getting dose 5. I work in health care (for a place that actively researches Covid), and didn't know you were allowed to get a fifth dose. Technically, I know there are ways to do it...
Personal anecdote - I was boosted in Oct and didn't catch covid off someone I live with in Dec. However I did get covid from someone else I live with in Feb. So either it's a variant that seeped through the vaccine, or the protection only lasted 5 months.
About 4 weeks ago I went to Walgreens and they gave me a booster, no problem. It was my second bivalent booster.
OK so how did you evade the all-seeing eye of Walgreens? Did you get your first bivalent from them as well? B/c I tried two different ones today (in Seattle) and at the first one, they balked when they saw my September bivalent on my card. At the second one, I "lost" that card, but they found me in their system. I tried the "oh that's a mistake, I signed up for a vaccine but I got COVID just before my appointment" tactic, but they still refused. Both pharmacists claimed they couldn't give a vaccine counter to the CDC's instructions - which, since when? The FDA regulates medication, not the CDC, nor is the CDC my doctor.
I donāt know. I did get my first bivalent one from Walgreens. I just made an appointment for the second one and showed up and they did it without comment. I donāt know what the rules are or if they were following them.
Or none of the vaccines are completely effective against any variant. Which is very obviously true.
bivalent boosted in december. now I have covid. pretty miserable in all the predictable ways.
my son has just walked in Walgreens and gotten it, double barreled J&J and Moderna and then boosted. This is America, we don't do accountability.
My experience is that yes, theyāll give it to you.
we tried & CVS, at least, turned us around. They indicated that thereās no current policy for additional boosters so we canāt get them. Itās baffling and counterproductive, like most healthcare policy in this country, alas. Maybe when yet another new formulation is developed or the feds finally issue a recurrent booster directive ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
> My understanding is that the COVID boosters lose most of their efficacy after six months.
After 6 months a person will lose most of the circulating antibodies in their bloodstream. This is a measurable and testable thing where scientists can say "yep, still immune to COVID."
You will still have an immune response to the virus, including antibody instructions stored in B cell lymphocytes. In healthy non-immunocompromised people this means they will still have strong protections from COVID, and near-immunity to severe sickness, for much longer than 6 months. However, it is untestable by any means other than long-term population studies for how many people get covid, to what severity, and how long after their last booster.
Vaccinated or not, every time you get the disease there's a chance you will develop long term symptoms (long term meaning, maybe your whole life). A high level of antibodies in your bloodstream confers higher resistance to getting the disease if you're exposed, which means you don't risk long covid (as much), and you don't pass it along.
In any case, apparently the new variants (particularly XBB) ignore immunisation for the most part š¤·
Yeah, my wife is still bedridden most days with post-COVID fatigue, and I have days when I just need to nap after exerting myself physically or mentally. It's probably permanent. And that was after a mild dose of the disease (back in November) and both of us were fully jabbed and boosted. COVID sucks.
On the plus side: Moderna says their vax will stay free, even after the prposed end to the state of emergency here in the US.
I also got my fourth š (the bivalent) in September, and that was my only Pfizer after all-Moderna up to that point. Guess it's back to the M.
Got my additional bivalent boost "by accident" this past week. Best of luck to anyone else who can get one before the (planned) dropping of the state-of-emergency next month.
what is the measure of efficacy here? If itās a measure of antibodies, thatās different than a measure of rate of severe illness. Since the start of this whole thing, antibody presence has been used as a proxy, but we know that the immune system will also produce long term TCell and other forms of protection.
If you have a good TCell response, aka. You are not immune compromised, than your body will still generate antibodies and you are protected from severe disease. Your concern then becomes immune escape of new strains, not the duration of presence of antibodies in your blood.
The issue of #LongCovid and immune deregulation (becoming #ImmuneCompromised) does also remain a concern as there is only a fairly weak correlation with severe disease.
So, the question really is: If I go to a different pharmacy chain, what are the odds that their backend infrastructure is integrated sufficiently that one will successfully report my last booster to the other? And if so, that the person behind the counter will actually care enough to notice and turn me away?
Given that only half of my shots are correctly logged with my stateās health department, Iām guessing the first question is 50/50.
j Is your state California?
I get a booster at CVS every 4 months. I have 8 now, no side effects, no one asks me any questions and Iāve not had Covid yet!
I make sure to stay up on them, set calendar reminders for the week of every 4 months out and itās never been a problem.
You are a model of efficiency and determination. I bow to you, sir.
Well there is now a worry about too many vaccines and vaccine āimprintā where your body becomes unable or stubborn about āupdatingā what it learnsā¦
Iāll have to deal with those consequences I suppose but for now no one can say my vaccines are waning or out of date!
At the end of the day - anything is better than actual Covid!
I've had it once for sure, probably twice and perhaps three times, and for me, as for many people, that was simply false. That doesn't mean I am some kind of denialist.
Iāve been hit by a bus once maybe even 3 times. Some people even die getting hit by busses but not me! Being hit by a bus is sometimes (apparently) not worse than never being hit by a bus (I prefer never being hit by a bus) for some people. It also doesnāt mean Iām a public transit denialist though.
Okay.
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I have not been hit by a bus: I have however been hit by a car. It was, for me, significantly worse that covid was, for me.
And yet I still get on my bike, and even though I take all the precautions I reasonably can (or all I can afford) there is some chance I will get hit by a car or a bus again. And sooner or later if I keep cycling for long enough one of those collisions may kill me rather than just doing damage which I mostly recovered from.
Because I do not have a single-bit mind and I understand that there are real numbers involved and not booleans. That's why I understand just how stupid the statement 'anything is better than actual covid' is. Oh well.
How do you think this semantic nitpicking of yours is improving anyone's day?
Honestly, COVID is irrelevant. It might kill you as you drown in your own lungs, but not all that often unless you were stupid (or unlucky) enough to not be vaccinated. It's a beat-up. You can ignore it.
But then comes Long COVID. Organ damage. Permanent fatigue. "Brain fog", which is a cutesy nickname for virally-acquired brain damage. Increased chances of stroke, heart failure and Bruce Willis flavoured dementia. Possibly (the jury is still out) a weird immunological thing where ALL the immunities you previously had, to diseases like measles and chicken pox, get wiped clean so you could catch any of those again like it was the first time.
It's a small percentage (maybe as much as 30%) of people who get to go Long. But every time you catch that "irrelevant" COVID and mope through a week of boredom while your vax-boosted body deftly fights it off, the Long COVID roulette wheel gets another spin.
So yeah. I'm happy with "anything is better than COVID". Same message; less typing.
Agreed. *anything* is better than Covid.
If I do (when I do) get Covid - at least my chances will be *better* than nothing (which what they would be if I had no vaccine cause I was lazy).
So I rather maximize my chances of success not take no action.
I will get Covid one dayā¦ but by that day maybe we have some
New info? New treatment. New vaccine even who knows!
Maybe we learn how to reduce long Covid.
Why speedrun catching Covid when I am fortunate to avoid it while I still can. Unfortunately not all are in my position to do so :(
Ok so does CVS not track you in their system? Because today I went to two different Walgreens, both of which refused me bivalent #2 because they showed me receiving bivalent #1 in September in their system, and flat-out stated they coudn't give me a second one because the CDC hadn't authorized it. I was like, dudes, this is not opiates, this is not stimulants, this is a freaking VACCINE wtf. But I'm apparently effectively blacklisted in their system now, because the CDC has said "one bivalent, ever, forever."
Every single one of my shots has been from the same CVS for the last 2 years.
My suggestion is make sure youāre +2 months after your last shot (I suggest 4 months) and say something like āI work around Vulnerable people and want to make sure my vaccine does not wane, become lesss effectiveā etc. and Iām sure theyāll give it to you.
If not try RiteAide or Walgreens.
Usually the āIām around vulnerable peopleā line and reminding them āmy last vaccine is old and waning I wish to stay current to protect othersā will do the trick.
Also make an appointment online if possible, that way you walk in, simply say youāre on the schedule already for a shot and they donāt even question you at all! If youāre already scheduled and in the system the ātechā has no say in the process.
The head pharmacist may come out and administer the shot but thatās about it.
Good luck!
I had appointments for both Walgreens "visits" today. I'm 6 months past my bivalent which was in early September. And both pharmacists (who got involved when the tech ran into some issue in the system, presumably my record) refused me because that September one showed in their system and they literally said "I can't administer this to you because the CDC hasn't authorized it."
I've got a CVS appointment this afternoon. I'll try the "I'm around vulnerable people" line if they somehow catch me out.
This is fucking fucked.
Yeah simply say ālook, Iām around vulnerable people (just lieā¦. Say your friends grandmother is very vulnerable I donāt know who cares itās not taking a shot away from someone else).
Say 6 months my vaccine is very out of date and I need to refresh the vaccine. Sometimes saying you run errands for old people will help too.
If none of these things help I suggest continuing to shop around. It is very fucked that they wonāt give it to you. Iāve never ever been questioned
Well, changing pharmacy chains worked, and I didn't even have to plead my sick grandma - but that's a limited-use strategy unless this new "CDC Guidance" thing loosens up at some point. I told them I didn't have a primary care doc or insurance, to forestall them "helpfully" sending records somewhere, but now I'm in their system too as "set for life according to the government." Even the kiosk I checked in at for my appointment warned me I would only get the bivalent booster if I "met CDC guidelines."
I'll be curious to hear how your next visit goes.
I also got shot 5 in September. I actually booked a Walgreens appt Saturday morning and whatever they want me to say in order to get a shot, I'm going to say to them. (Ghostbusters rule.) Up to and including "WHOOPS I LOST MY SECOND CARD THAT SAYS I GOT A BOOSTER IN SEPTEMBER, LOOK AT THAT."
Exactly this is what I doā¦ I usually just start a new cardā¦ no one cares. Iāve never met a CVS employee who refusesā¦ I wouldnāt get one every 2 monthsā¦ but no one seems to care at 4 months apart.
Meanwhile, Carl Malamud reports getting denied for a booster a his local Safeway...
https://official.resource.org/@carlmalamud/109820674633177852
Just last month, the FDA examined a proposal to make boosters an annual fall event. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/23/health/covid-boosters-fda.html
No CVS or Walgreens pharmacist is going to deny you a shot. They are very happy to do so Iām sure. Never had a problem.
I donāt recommend getting one every month but my schedule of 3-4 times a year lined up with winter - doubled up with a flu shot say in October seems to be a good strategy for at least staying current.
YMMV but so far so good! When I eventually do catch Covid id rather be well prepared then not prepared at all. Shot 9 will be in may! Then Sept/oct then January again!
Stay stage out there everyone!