papers please

Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
"Michael Righi was arrested in Ohio over the weekend after refusing to show his receipt when leaving Circuit City. When the manger and 'loss prevention' employee physically prevented the vehicle he was a passenger in from leaving the parking lot, he called the police, who arrived, searched his bag and found he hadn't stolen anything. The officer then asked for Michael's driver's license, which he declined to provide since he wasn't operating a motor vehicle. The officer then arrested him, and upon finding out Michael was legally right about not having to provide a license, went ahead and charged him with 'obstructing official business' anyways."
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33 Responses:

  1. kfringe says:

    Wanna go to Fry's?

  2. diggets says:

    Even when a cop's wrong, he's right.

    A couple weeks from now they'll quietly drop the charges.

    • rapier1 says:

      eh. happened to me. at a protest I got arrested because I almost kryptoed a guy who was trying to drag me off of my bike. As I raised th elock he identified himself as a cop at which point I dropped the lock and stopped the bike. I was handcuffed, put in a holding cell and eventually released. The charge wa sfailure to obey a police officer. Of course, since he was in plainclothes with no visible sign of authority I didn't know I had to obey him. It was a $99 fine.

      All things considered I didn't care that much. Still don't.

      • keimel says:

        I almost kryptoed a guy

        psssst... that only works on people from krypton.

        • rapier1 says:

          That would explain why I got arrested!

        • quercus says:

          No, it works very well on bike thieves. Human ones, or even sub-human bike-robbing scumbags.

          I'd never heard it as a verb before. As my own favourite lock is a Squire Paramount, does this mean that I either "squired" or "mounted" the last couple of scumbags? Neither of them sounds particularly wholesome in English slang.

    • dojothemouse says:

      when a cop's wrong, he's right.

      where he belongs. He's right
      where he belongs.

  3. mackys says:

    It's all been downhill since Hiibel vs. Nevada.

    These days, when I walk anywhere, I "forget" to take my ID along. Only bring my keys. My stupid, pathetic, useless little yap in the face of our increasingly jackbooted government.

    • Hiibel vs Nevada only establishes that a statute requiring you to identify yourself is legal, not that such a statute must exist. Neither is there a federal statute.

      (Ohio's law, for the record, says that when called upon as a potential witness to a crime, he must give them his name, birthdate, and address. It explicitly does *not* require him to provide ID, even if the simplest way to give those three things is to provide ID. So, assuming his story as he relates it is correct, he is 100% in the right and the police are 100% in the wrong. As well, the store employees have committed the crime of false imprisonment by preventing him from leaving, and may have arguably committed assault by physically preventing him from closing the car door. He's being a bit of a dick about it, but he has every right to be that dick, and they're entirely wrong in putting him in the situation where has the opportunity to be that dick.)

      • mackys says:

        Given how much I trust those clowns who hold elected office, telling me "there's no law requiring papers... yet" isn't much comfort.

    • sweh says:

      I'm a Green Card holder. Apparently I have to carry the card with me at all times. I wonder if this means I should take it into the sea if I go swimming... hmm.

    • If I get hit by a bus, I kinda want them to know pretty quickly who I am to be able to get in touch with my family.

      • mackys says:

        I live in a smaller city, where the traffic isn't bad, so it's not a worry for me. But if you're flipped out about it, you can always carry a piece of paper saying "If I am injured, please call (contact's phone number.)" It's still not legal ID, so if they ask you for ID they're still getting nuttin'.

        • I live in a pretty small city, too, and I'm not honestly too scared of getting pwned by traffic, but my state-issued ID is pretty resilient to water, fire, and tearing.

          Also, I'm not too scared of being randomly asked for ID. In fact, it's only ever happened once late at night on a college campus, and they (university law enforcement) only wanted my campus ID, which I believe they are within their right to request after hours on campus property.

  4. jes5199 says:

    while this is fucked, dude was trying to fight two battles at once-- he wanted to make an issue about leaving the store without showing his receipt, and then when the cops came, he decided to start a conflict with them, too. If he was only fighting one battle at a time, he would probably have unambiguously won the receipt-fight.
    As it is, he gets dragged off to jail-- and the store management can feel like they did the right thing.

  5. dzm6 says:

    Since you last sparked a discussion about this (what, like, a year ago?) I've made a point of refusing to submit to the exist searches at all stores except CostCo (I believe that I signed a membership contract with them that says that I submit to this exit search).

    My experiences have been:

    Fry's: Flunky doesn't usually challenge my walking past at all. They catch my eye and say "Excuse me!" and I not, say "Hi!" and keep walking.

    Best Buy: Flunky challenges me. They usually say "I need to check your bag and receipt." I usually say "No." From there they sometimes accept this, and sometimes press the matter. Usually they shut up and move when I say "If you have reason to suspect I am shoplifting, call your security and manager and detain me until the police arrive. Otherwise get out of my way."

    Circuit City: Got into an argument with The Flunky, the Floor Manager, and finally the Store Manager. "Well we're sorry sir, but there is a high shoplifting rate in this area. This policy is part of our stop-loss strategy." "So your response to poor security is to treat all of your customers as criminals?" "Well, if that's what it takes." "You do realize that this policy will make people like myself; professionals in my field that spend thousands of dollars per year on the kind of merchandise you carry, to not shop here?" "We realize that we will lose some business. But sir, why won't you simply let us check the bag?" "Because it is my bag. I own it. I paid for it over at that register. I do not submit to having my belongings searched." "Well, that's debatable whether you own that bag. It has our logo on it." "Aha. OK. [rustle rustle rustle] Here. I am returning your bag. I had not realized you were loaning it to me." That conversation went from non-productive to just annoying so I told the manager that he (and his company) would not be getting any more business from me and left (which, I might add, he had said I was free to do earlier in the conversation - by the time we got to the bag I was arguing to be a shit and waste their time).

    In general I think most flunkies are either trained to request a search but to not fight it if the request is refused. On the other hand, I'm a marginally well groomed tall white guy, so maybe their cultural stereotype/profile of a shoplifter doesn't match my template and they're willing to let me go rather than make a fuss. Either way - Fuck 'em. The list of grumpy letters is getting longer, and the list of stores I'm willing to submit to shopping at is getting shorter.

    • skreidle says:

      It's also been pointed out (in the old discussion in this journal) that shoplifting is a bogus rationale for checking the bag between cashier and door. Nothing you stole is going to make its way into your store bag in that space! Thus, it must be intended as loss prevention with cashier complicity, which is not a burden the customers should be expected to bear.

    • fo0bar says:

      CostCo and Sam's Club do "require" searches, but if you don't submit, they can just revoke your membership. I see that as on par with what non-clubs can do to you (deny you access in the future), so I'd say it's just as "safe" for you to ignore CostCo as well.

  6. wildilocks says:

    Hey, at least you're not in Sydney... but err, the reason there's so much security is of course POTUS. We just wish to hell he and his gigantic carbon sucking entourage would go home, the majority of Aussies believe he's the worst president in history, according to current polls [but then apparently so do 60% of Americans :P].

    Real life example of the fun to be had: A freind of a friend got told to get on the ground yesterday with hands held behind his back by a police officer, even though he was nowhere near an exclusion zone, and had his "papers" on him - he just "looked suspicious". It's a Kafkaesque nightmare.

    • autodidactic says:

      I am so sorry that this dude that calls himself our president keeps being crappy to all the countries that welcome him. Police states suck... and ours spreads outside our borders whenever he walks around. :P

      Again, sorry. I like Australians. I hate seeing this happen to them. It happened in England, too.

    • dk says:

      but err, the reason there's so much security is of course POTUS. We just wish to hell he and his gigantic carbon sucking entourage would go home

      is that possibly because your security system is the only one on the planet worse than ours?

      sorry homie, but you picked the wrong day to make that comment.

      • wildilocks says:

        Dude, I think you totally missed the point. These guys make a career of getting arrested, and they take huge risks with their pranks. I think it's fantastic that they got as far as they did, and indeed, shows exactly what a phenomenal waste of time, money, and convenience for Australians the Bush circus has been. Are you aware that the situation is even more hilarious as they had actually warned the authorities that they were planning to get arrested???

        • dk says:

          the fact that they meant it to be funny doesn't change the implications of what they managed to accomplish.

  7. i got detained and held at Kmart in san mateo last month because i walked out with out showing my reciept. when i asked the security if i stole anything he said "no" they called 911 and held me for an hour. when i asked if i was detained for he said "yes". then called me a racist since i "did not like listening to minorities and that is why i walked out" the "greeter" was an old filipino guy.

    it goes on and on. but their legal deparetment contacted me and are "offering" compensation.

  8. telecart says:

    Here virtually all public places require you to submit your shit to a security search upon entering the premises (to a uniformed security guard, not some store-lackey), but I don't believe I can think of any single place that wants to search you going out..