Have you asked Slim's et al how they gamed this stupid system?
I know how they did it -- they've had their permit for ~25 years, and back then, nobody gave a shit.
I mean, it may actually be cheaper and easier to hire a bunch of mad scientists to break the laws of physics.
wow. who do you know who's running for office?
I saw Nina Hagen at the DNA, even though I live in Minneapolis. It was one of the best live shows I have ever seen. Do not give up!
Seattle is modeling its new nightlife ordinance on San Francisco's policies. I fully expect to see the same amount of BS for new or changing clubs here too.
Wow that's crap, definitely time to lawyer up.
poop on a stick!
Christ, that's depressing.
I thought Vancouver, BC was a pain in the ass for licensing, but looks like you've got them beat in San Francisco.
I didn't catch if there was a community response; is it even remotely possible to have the neighbours on your side and show support for the lounge? Or are you seen localy as merely sacrificing the souls of the city's virginal youth to the Great Beast?
the neighbors, one presumes, are the same ones trying to get the eagle put out of business completely, so no probably not.
Fuck, Jamie. I am so sorry. What a colossal PITA.
Thanks for continuing to fight. It's appreciated.
I want to second this thank you, and also xinit's question - anyway community support can be rallied in this one?
We're still trying to figure out what the best approach is. It's differently-complicated than last time, since now a state agency is involved instead of just city.
Thank you for fighting the good fight. Seriously. Thank you.
Convert the new kitchen to a lab for producing really good fake ID's.
or meth, it's wildly popular and profitable up here...
Curious as to whether the exhaust hood would do anything to change their minds... as in, if there were some investor willing to pay for the exhaust hood, and if you were willing to go through the added hassle of contractors and inspections for however many more months it would take to install it / inspect it / fix it / inspect it again, would the presence of grease on the menu help overcome the physical size of the kitchen in the eyes of the SFPD?
Four words: Free coffee and donuts.
Huh, I guess that was some guy in a closet magicking up food when I played at DNA. I thought I got a tasty fajita from the kitchen but I was wrong.
"What's this tiny thing! This is a joke! This doesn't look like a restaurant!"
The appropriate response is, "we have contracted kitchen staffing out to recognized experts in the field."
The current chef is either 4'11" or 5'0", so it's not that far off.
Why not rent some tables and chairs and turn the place into a restaurant for the one time those... those *ahem* inspectors are there?
"This look like a restaurant to you now..?"
Good luck, if it doesn't work out there's still the computer industry out there for you.
Probably still wouldn't work. When Goat Hill Pizza opened up a new location in SoMa I stopped by and found a place that looked like a club that wasn't yet open for the night. Turns out this is because it was exactly that, a club where they had set up a few tables. We were the only people in a dark, cavernous environment. There wasn't so much a waitstaff as club employees who were just sort of hanging around before the night really started.
Basically they attempted to make a club kinda into a restaurant and it instead fell into a sort of uncanny valley.
But they succeeded, though.
That old space was 'City Nights', where Roderick's Chamber was once held.
They were serving food in the club for a long time prior to Goat Hill Pizza's arrival, and I can't remember if they were 18+ back then or 21+.
18+, it was the first club I "legally" went to :)
man, that is total horseshit.
The amusing thing is that the Rickshaw Stop has a smaller setup than yours and they have the 18+ permit. Guess it pays to be grandfathered in.
I still maintain that you haven't bribed the right people.
Time to fire up the time machine, go back 25 years, get the permit, and PROFIT.
Seriously. This is what sucks about trying to do things the right way through all the official channels. I'm going to buy a bunch of pinstripe suits and we can sell hitmen contracts out the back. I know it doesn't solve the live music problem, but hey it sounds fun and dangerous nonetheless.
It doesn't benefit them. It would be fine with SFPD if this city had no bars or nightclubs at all; the Chamber of Commerce might have a problem with that, but it would make SFPD's job easier if everyone just stayed home.
This is near-infinitely easier said than done, of course, but perhaps this means the solution is to work through the Chamber of Commerce, and see if they can "work with" SFPD on the issue.
So, is it letter-writing campaign time yet?
Or showing-up-at-City-Hall-en-masse time?
Sorry, I'm showing my Santa Cruz roots, damn.
But you're in super liberal land where they know better what is good and bad for you.
You shall accept this decision, as your government knows better.
(or you could try a different location)(or you could try whining and dining them)
Oh, of course, you'd have much easier luck getting DNA set up for all-ages in Kentucky.
Sorry to hear of your troubles, JWZ. May your success be imminent and your legal fees be low.
In VA you would, actually. Under VA law there is no distinction between "bar" and "restaurant". This means that all places that serve alcohol for on-premesis consumption must serve meals, but legally an Irish pub, a 50's diner serving beer, a "family" restaurant like Applebees, and a nightclub that does not sell memberships (as that would be a "club" if they did) are treated as the same.
There are different permits for beer/wine and spirits, however.
And food must represent half your costs (or maybe it's more), so if you sell more alcohol than food, you have to buy a bunch of food every month and basically give it away.
Massive lossage. Sorry to hear that -- I always try to point people I know going to SF to whatever is happening at the DNA, just did that this morning, actually.
I'll buy some swag from the DNA online store now to assuage my conscience and feelings of powerlessness over The Man.
Anyone we can lobby for you?
Well, I may be 2700 miles away, but I still think what you're doing is important. Keep fighting, amazingly, it is worth it if only to keep Big Mother from encroaching on every aspect of our lives that might be fun.
That sucks! I couldn't eat the food you served because it seemed heavily cheese-based, but I supported in principle. I also supported by buying lots of beer.
Thought you would like to see this.
oops, just realized that was the same link that you posted back in feb... no wonder I thought of you when I saw it :P
that royally sucks, thanks for putting up a fight!
now it's a race to see whether I can turn 21 before DNA becomes 18+ . . .
I've enjoyed following your troubles at the DNA all the way from London for some time now. One day I plan to visit, and I hope things will still be going strong then. All the best.
I continue to be totally amazed at your inability to have live shows. Here in the RTP area of NC, we have a good number of live venues that seem to be constantly booked, and I believe that they are 21+, based on the fact that I occasionally see shows listed as "all-ages". (Or used to, this may have changed, but the scene hasn't, really.)
I think I've asked this before, but is the problem that there are too many live venues splitting the talent, the DNA isn't well-regarded as a live music venue, not enough people want to see live music in San Francisco, or what?
In some (many? most?) jurisdictions, you have to lock up or at least concertedly restrict the booze for an all-ages event.
Thus, those venues would have to be 'all-ages certified' as a prerequisite, but don't bother for most acts when the booze brings in more revenue than warm bodies.
Either that or they just sneak the occasional show in and hope no one notices.
You should write a (pseudo-fictional) book. Between this permit stuff and the [REDACTED] it would be quite a read.
What a bunch of whiny bitches.
This is The Nannystate in action...
The SFPD should be disbanded. They serve no useful purpose (witness complete inability to prevent or investigate crimes), and as far as I can tell exist solely to tell everyone not to do things that are perfectly legal and sensible (such as use a public sidewalk, board a public bus, or obtain a license which is permitted by state law). As far as I'm concerned the Supervisors should shut down the department and send all of their employees to the fucking bread line where they belong. Cops are just criminals by another name, anyway. Within 3 months they'd be felons, and hopefully the rest of us would have shot them all dead in self-defense.
I hope you sue the shit out of them and win. Bankrupt the worthless shitbag pigs for all of us.
Ugh. I thought Seattle was a pain in the ass when it comes to clubs.
Hmmm ... I know a handful of promoters up here in Seattle and the majority of their bookings are in our overly-abundant 21+ clubs. We have far less all-ages clubs than bars that play live music. And 21+ clubs like the Tractor and the High Dive get huge turn-outs up here. Do you think the demographic of folks who go to shows is that much different in our two cities? I will ask one of the promoters at Nada Mucho what he thinks about that and how to tap into the 21+ market for live music.