dissent is unamerican, right?

So it's coming up on that special, jingoistic time of year again, and this time I figure I'll get some flyers printed up to scatter around the club on the week of Jul 4. Suggestions on what to put on them? I have a few ideas, but they're not really grabbing me...

<LJ-CUT text=" --More--(34%) ">

Other suggestions? Funny good. Snide good. Shrill bad.

Update: I just wanted you all to know that the stultifying lameness of the discussion that happened in this post irritated me so much that I threw up my hands and stopped thinking about it, and never got around to getting any flyers printed at all. So, thanks for that! You all totally rule.

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52 Responses:

  1. icis_machine says:

    maybe a few choice bushisms in collage format?

    http://bushisms.com/

  2. avva says:

    The "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" quote is fake.
    Jefferson never said that.

  3. sw00p says:

    madison? i came across this today, reading a chomsky book (the common good):

    'james madison believed that the primary goal of government is "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." as his colleague john jay was fond of putting it, "the people who own the country ought to govern it."'

    i might leave out the madison ...

    • Chomsky is known to use selective evidence out of context. He isn't a reliable source on any (political) topic.

      • sw00p says:

        ok, i'll bite - prove he did not say it, and that his words meant something else.

        i'd like to know the context, too.

        • I don't have the time or desire to track down this particular quote of Madison or Jay. However, if you want to know more about Chomsky's truthfulness, this is a good place to start.

          • sw00p says:

            hrmmm. "my allergic reaction to XXXXXXX" ... well, that's nice, but i was thinking more along the lines of actual refutation, more than just opinion. anyways, i read quite a bit across the spectrum of political thought, including other 'crazies' from aristotle to rand to marx and so on, so don't feel you have to jump in and save this poor fool from being co-opted by the evil, anti-corporate, anti-discrimination, anti-blood-for-oil commies (yes, i know) - i was simply mentioning what i found to be interesting viewpoint, and an interesting quote of one of the founding fathers (btw, i am not an american by birth but by choice - and i have enormous respect for the _ideal_ of democracy that this country was supposed to be founded upon).

            *end ranting*

    • soul4rent says:

      yeah, heck, if Chomsky said it, it MUST be true!

      • sw00p says:

        that wasn't in the subtext. i might quote nixon, another time.

        get real.

        • soul4rent says:

          not in so many words. if you really want to split hairs, however, it's more like "CNN and Fox news slant the news to suit their own agendas, but chomsky does not."

          Get real? I'm not the one who believes everything he reads.

          • sw00p says:

            then we have common ground! see, you don't know me. so many assumptions from a single paragraph of lj post.

            tsk. tsk. tsk.

            (btw, i laughed later about the nixon thing in my reply - think about it)

            • soul4rent says:

              from your post:

              i came across this today, reading a chomsky book (the common good):

              'james madison believed that the primary goal of government is "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." as his colleague john jay was fond of putting it, "the people who own the country ought to govern it."'

              i might leave out the madison ...

              You suggest "leaving out madison", and your sole sufficient reason for it is a sentence - not an argument, or even prima facie evidence - by Noam Chomsky asserting such a view. It's no stretch of logic to assume that you see anything Chomsky says as necessary and sufficient evidence to support or oppose a particular statement. Assumptions? Yes, but certainly no more specious than the assumption that you will find your car tomorrow morning in the same place that you left it.

              • sw00p says:

                guilty as charged, if you can give me prima facie evidence that what was quoted is not extant or was quoted in error.

                now, would you be putting such effort into this if i had quoted richard nixon quoting someone else? i think not ... i don't have a preference for one thinker's thoughts either way, and am well-disposed to be shown the errors of my line of thought by clear and direct means - but i am surprised by how emotional some ppl will become merely at the mention of a name ...

                i appreciate that many ppl see red flags when they see the word "XXXXXXX" and i think that's understandable - but the vehemence and vigor of their prosecution is quite astounding.

                as to my 'car' - well, since we have tornado warnings in the county i'm not sure you picked an adequate metaphor ...

                • jwz says:

                  You know, when I asked, "what would be an amusing flyer to have printed", I really wasn't hoping for a flame war about Chomsky.

                  Just FYI.

                  • sw00p says:

                    sorry - forgot we were pissing on your porch.

                    i can be reached via lj "sw00p" for anyone who wants to continue our pissing contest ...

  4. cyeh says:

    The first is that if you put up a bunch of leftist stuff, someone in your audience is going to be pissed and all that (I'm not saying I would, but someone will) and I envion that you'll get complaints and possibly more vandalism as a result. Whatever.

    Secondly, I think it would be cool if you alternated dissent/lefty propoganda with equally wacky propaganda on the same wall. It's not necessarily about dissent then, but it's about having an opinion and saying it loudly and boldly.

    It can then be "propoganda night" but that's not patriotic, I suppose.

    • cyeh says:

      Ugh, this is what I get for not proofreading my post. It should read:

      "Secondly, I think it would be cool if you alternated dissent/lefty propoganda with equally wacky right/conservative/redneck propaganda on the same wall. It's not necessarily about dissent then, but it's about having an opinion and saying it loudly and boldly."

      • jwz says:

        Dude, have we met? When have I cared about pissing people off?

        Is "the Constitution is a pretty good document" considered "lefty" now?

        • cyeh says:

          True enough on the pissing people off part.

          Well, in some circles trying to assert "constitutional rights" just means that you're using it as a cover to do something I'm not going to like, so yeah, some people would consider that lefty.

          I don't try to categorize my political views all that often, so my choice of nomenclature is based on what I think my understanding of the world is at the moment.

          See "revisionist history".

          • mattbot says:

            That the Bill of Rights (or any law) was written down at all suggests that asserting those rights is something that other people aren't going to like. I think both conservatives and liberals would agree on that.

            "Secondly, I think it would be cool if you alternated dissent/lefty propoganda with equally wacky right/conservative/redneck propaganda on the same wall. It's not necessarily about dissent then, but it's about having an opinion and saying it loudly and boldly."

            Dissent isn't wacky, it's politics. The self-negating display you've discribed would actually be about appeasement, which is the exact opposite of politics, if politics is understood as the practice of power. Loud, bold and opinionated is also more often a product of narcissism rather than of furthering an agenda.

            And Narcissism has no place in the Discoteque! I dance to the Earnest Beat of the Revolution! ;)

            Seriously though, jwz, what statement are you going for? Both "anti-corporate-rule" and "anti-police-state" sound good to me. If both seem to clash in your mind sounds like you may be seeking a narrower target. I think Wright's posters are a good plan. I'm all for a good detournement. Too that end, I'd stick to the altered American propaganda posters. No want wants to agree with a Nazi progaganda poster even if altered. (No one you'd want in your club anyway.)

            • jwz says:

              Well I'm more interested in "anti police state."

              I'm hesitant to conflate the two, since I think that kind of thing is what makes (for example) Adbusters' latest "Black Spot" campaign be completely fucking stupid. What's it about? Anti-advertising? Anti-corporation? Anti-Bush? Apparently it's all three, making it a very small choir they're preaching to.

              There are, incidentally, lots of people in my club whom I wouldn't want in my club. But I do want their money, so I let them tag along with it.

              • mattbot says:

                I thought it was about the romance of vandalism, which, as a property owner, probably doesn't hold much sway over you these days.

                There are, incidentally, lots of people in my club whom I wouldn't want in my club. But I do want their money, so I let them tag along with it.

                Tolerant democrat or callous capitalist swine? I guess we'll have to flip a coin when we get to you during the Revolution.

            • cyeh says:

              You're free to interpret my suggestion as "self-negating" and dismiss it as "appeasement" but I was under the impression that jwz was asking for suggestions.

              I had thought that having all of the wacky views out there wouldn't be appeasement, but a bold display of all the far-out view points that makes up this country, which is a fine point to make on the 4th. Free speech and all that.

              If jwz wants to use it as a forum for his own views, that's great too.

              Whatever. I guess I just had an issue with sticking your words into my mouth.

              • mattbot says:

                Ok, how about this: "What the Right, Honorable Mr. Cyeh describes is a display of sentiment about opinions in lieu of a display of a dissenting opinion, to which I say, jwz, old chum, I strongly discourage you from undertaking this plan of action in your fine entertainment facility. Please install a sputnik instead."

                An alarmingly high percentage of the views that make up our nation, by ownership, belong to Viacom, News Corp, Bertelsmann, and a few (very few) other corporate media giants. So perhaps it's a bad time to celebrate our many diverse voices joining together in a grand democratic discussion since it isn't actually happening.

                Which is a very fine point to make this July 4th.

                But "anti-police-state" is good too.

        • g_na says:

          Hee, Jamie said "dude".

          ;)

        • jlindquist says:

          If tha Constitution is Left, then lawwwwdy, I don' wanna be Right! :-)

      • greyhame says:

        Alternating the remixed posters with the originals, then?

        • cyeh says:

          That might be neat. I was thinking of more along the lines with alternatinng planned parenthood flyers with anti-abortionist literature.

          Or something like that. But yeah. Find wacky off the wall stuff from both sides and then make it be jingoism day.

  5. broken_alice says:

    I have nothing beneficial to add except to say:

    Skinny Puppy rocks!

    :)

    • you'll have to get the new cEvin Key It's fscking awersome.

      It totally takes me back to those SP instrumentals like Film and Christianity...and Love

  6. tsarin says:

    "One thousand points of light. One dim bulb."

  7. ouranophobe says:

    Have you read Thomas Knapp's essays on this? (The one I linked to has a link to the previous one.) Mr. Knapp's a Libertarian, if you don't know. Might be something useful oo interesting for you there.

  8. Left-wing anti-corporatism isn't dissent - it's the monoculture of the young, rich, and white.

    • jwz says:

      I used to be an individual, but then all these posers showed up.

      • I figure the relentless quest to assert individuality based on the most trivial of things is ridiculous.

        I'm pretty conformist. I eat three times a day, sleep at night, wear jeans, speak standard English, etc. Now that I have a full set of pubic hairs, I don't feel the need to label everything I do as "dissent" or "individualistic".

        • lilmissnever says:

          Congratulations. You're a grown-up. Now you can prove how enlightend you are by sneering at people.

          • I don't have a enlightenment Napoleon complex. I'm a poor Chinese kid, from a civilization that has more culture in one dynasty than all the West. In spite of that, we can't build a ship that floats.

            I don't judge people on their self-appointed enlightenment. I judge them on how they treat their friends and how they keep their promises.

  9. out of the remix posters, of COURSE i like this one.

    also, how about some get your war on?
    i KNOW you like GYWO--do you think those would be appropriate in some fashion?

  10. leolo says:

    "I needed remind you that in a mass market economy a revolutionary song is any one you choose to sing yourself."

    -Leolo

  11. morrisa says:

    But I'm not sure they think of it that way.

    http://www.allamericanbikini.com

  12. transiit says:

    I think laziness should rule the day.

    Thus, use the Long Live Monkeybutter image.

  13. jcurious says:

    Why not just put up pictures of the Kent State "police action", the Seattle WTO protest, stuff like that?

  14. internebbish says:

    I obviously did this pre 9-11. Feel free to run with it though. Sorry if I've pimped this your way before. That's one of the joys of senility.

  15. susano_otter says:

    Not for nothing, but if you make your club a venue for promoting a political agenda, it will change the nature of the club. People will start showing up because they appreciate your politics, not because they appreciate your music, or your venue, or any of the other things you appreciated so much that you poured years of yourself into making those things a reality.

    It's your club; absolutely use it to promote the causes you believe in... but it could backfire. You may discover the DNA changing from a place where people pay you money to dance to the music you like, to a Hall of Justice for radical left-wing activists. Even if you agree with their politics, that may not be the direction you want your club to go.

    • aig says:

      For some reason this gave me a late 60's flashback to people in basement clubs discussing the Vietnam War and the hatred against Nixon. Except now they are discussing the Afghan/Iran/Iraq/Syria/______ warand the hatred against Bush.

      Maybe it's just history repeating as it always seems to do.

      Or maybe its because as I read it, the radio started playing Neil Young.

    • jwz says:

      I'm afraid you haven't been paying attention:

      • DNA is already a place where people pay me money to dance to music I despise;
      • I insult my customers constantly, and it does not keep them away.

      So I really think there's no danger here of me losing that all-important Far Right Disco/Deep House Market by way of a few flyers.

  16. zapevaj says:

    "The founding fathers were illegal combatants."